A Rant Against Roller Derby
So I know that people have already kind of debated the whole Roller Derby thing in feminist Blogland, but I just got in a fight with some people about it on a different blog of mine and thought I might as well post my rant here as well in case people are interested.
I went to my first Roller Derby match a few weeks ago and had pretty mixed feelings about the whole experience. So far I'm seeing a two-pronged argument in favor of Roller Derby in some feminist circles:
Point 1: The athleticism and showmanship of the girls on the team and the fact that they're pierced, tattoed, dyed, or alternative looking in some other way makes the sexy part of Roller Derby ok. There's an idea that well, these girls are tough enough and outside the mainstream enough that we shouldn't read their sexuality as falling into the traditional dynamics where women are exploited and used by patriarchy.
Point 2: It's ok for these Roller Derby players to play with their sexuality because sexuality is fun! It's fun to skate around in a mini skirt kicking people's asses! The sexuality is empowering for these girls because they no longer have to be masculine to be athletic, they can also show off their feminine side a.k.a. their tits.
Don't get me wrong, I think there is some validity to these points. Why should you have to look like a man to be perceived as tough and powerful? And surely these women should not be ashamed of their sexuality and their bodies, like the patriarchy has been telling them their whole lives. Roller Derby comes to symbolize a kind of punk-like, self-liberation strategy. I'm taking the roles you've placed on me, twisting them ironically, and shoving them back in your face!
But maybe we should pause for a moment and think of a couple things that most people WOULD consider patently sexist: Cheerleading for one. A lot of the advocates who I see talking about how badass Roller Derby is, think of something like cheerleading as the most terrible sexist thing imaginable. And yet, cheerleading requires a tremendous amount of athleticism and involves a huge amount of danger and physical risk. Further, the costumes cheerleaders wear bear an uncanny resemblence to the Roller Derby costumes that I've seen. Are you going to tell them what they're doing is any less empowering than what Roller Derby women do? Ok so cheerleading is ok. I sense the third wavers nodding.
Well let's push it further: what about Mud Wrestling? You know, the game where a couple of women get semi-nude and roll in the mud duking it out at strip clubs to cheers and yells. I would argue that you can make similar types of arguments in favor of women's Mud Wrestling as you could for Cheerleading or Roller Derby.
Now, I totally get there are huge important differences with these examples. The female bonding that takes place within Roller Derby teams is awesome. The audience at Roller Derby shows is usually pretty evenly gender-distributed, suggesting that it isn't as blatantly sexual as Mud Wrestling is. In a lot of cities the matches are women owned, women operated, and women may or may not be the ones reaping the profits from games. And sure, Cheerleading was naturally founded on women playing a secondary role to the "real" male athletes on the field (Newsflash: Roller Derby didn't have the greatest start in the world either). But I also think the idea of an audience cheering as women in skimpy outfits wearing roller skates try to make each other fall down isn't exactly the most feminist thing I can imagine. I think it's the sort of display you would never see at a men's atheltic event, not just because of the way masculinity is constructed by patriarchy, but because it's degrading and undermines how serious and competitive the players are.
If Roller Derby is really about how awesome the girls are at their sport, then it should REALLY be about that. It should really be about how empowering it is to see women being competitive and athletic and downright bad ass regardless of what they're wearing. Why does "embracing your femininity" in this context turn into wearing sexy clothing? Are there no other ways for women to assert their femininity? And if not, maybe we should reconsider what's so great about femininity in the first place. And if it's primarily about playing with sexual norms and doing some kind of Suicide Girls type performance with a little bit of violence added in for spice, well then I think we should stop pretending it's feminist and empowering.
To take things a bit further, here's the deal: a stripper doing a pole dance very well might be having fun or feeling powerful. Sure. I completely believe that. But what I don't buy is that her taking off her clothes for money is somehow resisting patriarchy because on a broader level the commodification of her sexuality just feeds back into the commodification of women's sexuality in general, whether we collectively volunteer for that or not. I think it trivializes what sexual repression and domination actually means for women on a psychological and sociological level and how sexual violence against women gets excused in the minds of men as business as usual. I continue to see violence against women as a problem with men first and I am not going to go around blaming women in the sex industry or Roller Derby ladies for violence against women. No no no. BUT let's not kid ourselves and pretend that all the ways women "play" with their sexuality are feminist or that when we make an "individual" choice about our own bodies, we aren't effecting other women or reacting to standards set by men.
I went to my first Roller Derby match a few weeks ago and had pretty mixed feelings about the whole experience. So far I'm seeing a two-pronged argument in favor of Roller Derby in some feminist circles:
Point 1: The athleticism and showmanship of the girls on the team and the fact that they're pierced, tattoed, dyed, or alternative looking in some other way makes the sexy part of Roller Derby ok. There's an idea that well, these girls are tough enough and outside the mainstream enough that we shouldn't read their sexuality as falling into the traditional dynamics where women are exploited and used by patriarchy.
Point 2: It's ok for these Roller Derby players to play with their sexuality because sexuality is fun! It's fun to skate around in a mini skirt kicking people's asses! The sexuality is empowering for these girls because they no longer have to be masculine to be athletic, they can also show off their feminine side a.k.a. their tits.
Don't get me wrong, I think there is some validity to these points. Why should you have to look like a man to be perceived as tough and powerful? And surely these women should not be ashamed of their sexuality and their bodies, like the patriarchy has been telling them their whole lives. Roller Derby comes to symbolize a kind of punk-like, self-liberation strategy. I'm taking the roles you've placed on me, twisting them ironically, and shoving them back in your face!
But maybe we should pause for a moment and think of a couple things that most people WOULD consider patently sexist: Cheerleading for one. A lot of the advocates who I see talking about how badass Roller Derby is, think of something like cheerleading as the most terrible sexist thing imaginable. And yet, cheerleading requires a tremendous amount of athleticism and involves a huge amount of danger and physical risk. Further, the costumes cheerleaders wear bear an uncanny resemblence to the Roller Derby costumes that I've seen. Are you going to tell them what they're doing is any less empowering than what Roller Derby women do? Ok so cheerleading is ok. I sense the third wavers nodding.
Well let's push it further: what about Mud Wrestling? You know, the game where a couple of women get semi-nude and roll in the mud duking it out at strip clubs to cheers and yells. I would argue that you can make similar types of arguments in favor of women's Mud Wrestling as you could for Cheerleading or Roller Derby.
Now, I totally get there are huge important differences with these examples. The female bonding that takes place within Roller Derby teams is awesome. The audience at Roller Derby shows is usually pretty evenly gender-distributed, suggesting that it isn't as blatantly sexual as Mud Wrestling is. In a lot of cities the matches are women owned, women operated, and women may or may not be the ones reaping the profits from games. And sure, Cheerleading was naturally founded on women playing a secondary role to the "real" male athletes on the field (Newsflash: Roller Derby didn't have the greatest start in the world either). But I also think the idea of an audience cheering as women in skimpy outfits wearing roller skates try to make each other fall down isn't exactly the most feminist thing I can imagine. I think it's the sort of display you would never see at a men's atheltic event, not just because of the way masculinity is constructed by patriarchy, but because it's degrading and undermines how serious and competitive the players are.
If Roller Derby is really about how awesome the girls are at their sport, then it should REALLY be about that. It should really be about how empowering it is to see women being competitive and athletic and downright bad ass regardless of what they're wearing. Why does "embracing your femininity" in this context turn into wearing sexy clothing? Are there no other ways for women to assert their femininity? And if not, maybe we should reconsider what's so great about femininity in the first place. And if it's primarily about playing with sexual norms and doing some kind of Suicide Girls type performance with a little bit of violence added in for spice, well then I think we should stop pretending it's feminist and empowering.
To take things a bit further, here's the deal: a stripper doing a pole dance very well might be having fun or feeling powerful. Sure. I completely believe that. But what I don't buy is that her taking off her clothes for money is somehow resisting patriarchy because on a broader level the commodification of her sexuality just feeds back into the commodification of women's sexuality in general, whether we collectively volunteer for that or not. I think it trivializes what sexual repression and domination actually means for women on a psychological and sociological level and how sexual violence against women gets excused in the minds of men as business as usual. I continue to see violence against women as a problem with men first and I am not going to go around blaming women in the sex industry or Roller Derby ladies for violence against women. No no no. BUT let's not kid ourselves and pretend that all the ways women "play" with their sexuality are feminist or that when we make an "individual" choice about our own bodies, we aren't effecting other women or reacting to standards set by men.
posted by Vicky Vengeance at 9:56 AM
45 Comments:
BUT let's not kid ourselves and pretend that...when we make an "individual" choice about our own bodies, we aren't affecting other women
I've taken this to heart and made it a strong sentiment in my mind when I wake up & get dressed each morning for work, when I get dressed each evening for swing dancing, etc.
out of curiosity, what do you make of men's rollerderby? or maybe i'm the only weirdo out there who lives in a place where the women's team has a brother squad?
As a feminist who play on a roller derby team, I've struggled with a lot of the issues you present, as I'm sure many other women have. To me, roller derby is, first and foremost, a sport about athleticism, competition and sisterhood. I think it sucks that in many cases, the only way to get the public interested in our sport is by playing up the visual aspects of the game - that is, team uniforms. However, many leagues have addressed this problem. For example, the teams in my league have a combination of colors they're supposed to wear. The rest of the uniform is up to the individual skaters. Some girls where shirts, some where fishnets. Others where t-shirts and baseball pants. Still others wear running shorts and tanktops. It seems to me that often, people who are anti-roller derby for feminist reasons are only looking at the outfits, as if the length of my skirt cancels out everything positive about the sport.
It's my hope that as roller derby continues to grow, we won't need the flashy costumes to draw the crowds. Until then, leagues are just doing what they have to to keep their sport alive.
Thank you for posting this. And thank you Christine for adding some positive suggestions for the outfits.
Why does Roller Derby have to have anything to do with feminism at all?
I play derby. In my mind the two things aren't neccessarily related. OK I wear a short skirt (with bike shorts underneath, so it's not like anyone's getting a free show) I actually wear short skirts with bike shorts to practice - not because anyone sees it at all but because it's actually comfortable. Bike shorts = comfy ; little skirt over it = camo for my mommy fat.
Femminism if it's going to be of any use to me (or anyone) should be a lot more concerned with why every interview I go to after being at home with my son for two years acts like I've suddenly lost all my brain cells and need to re-start at entry level and be grateful for it. Or maybe not have my boss chew me out for taking a morning off to attend parent teacher conferences when at the same time my husbands boss gives him a pat on the back for being a commited dad.
I could go on. But let's stick to the actually important issues instead of being sidetracked by skirt lengths and the forbidden idea that some women actually do enjoy being sexy sometimes.
Wasn't the whole idea of femminism that we should be able to do whatever we want to do without being judged?
Feminism is the notion that women are human beings, not that it's a good thing for us to play into our own oppresion. It amazes me how many so-called "feminists" these days have never heard the expression "the personal is political."
Politics is about pattern and context, not about an individual's opinion. You could work as a prostitute and genuinely enjoy the work and your particular set of johns and you will still be propping up the patriarchy because you are acting out the notion that a woman's body is a commodity to be bought and sold.
It's every bit as worthwhile to oppose the way society ignores women's sports unless we're sexy, as it is to oppose employers treating mothers like they have no brain cells. Both are symptoms of the patriarchy. Neither is more important than the other. After all, being an athlete is a job too, and how would you like your employer to require you to dress sexy in order to retain your job? Because athletics isn't the only place this happens.
Whoever said Derby was ever trying to support any kind of feminist fucking ideals?
Feminists are against a lot of fun things, so I'm not really surprised to hear it being picked on here. Derby girls don't care a whole lot about what these feminists think of them though. They only listen to girls who can skate and hit hard.
I suggest you strap on a pair of skates and give it a shot. Then tell me about skating and what you wear. It would be hard to move around in a three piece suit.
What do you think about those little sluts in their leotards doing back flips and suggestive sexual moves on a big masculine pole in gymnastics? Maybe it is ok because they are over the pole, the symbol for male dominance and walking all over it?
Oh and my god have you seen the skimpy outfits that the fucking swim team was wearing? Holy shit what is this world coming too?
Oh, and not all of the girls sexy it up. It's a choice.
Ahhh, my first bout is on Saturday and I'm getting pumped up. I'll just imagine the team I'm playing against are a bunch of whiney feminists.
I think what really pisses me off is your total neglect of responsibility for YOUR OWN perceptions of female sexuality.
You are buying into it just as much as any beer bellied testosterone junkie boob oggler out there.
You are the one sitting there and judging this as an exploitation of sexuality. Maybe it's just an easy thing to move around in?
Would it be ok if a woman was breastfeeding and showed her tit then?
Would that be ok with you?
Derby is a grass roots team sports organization done by women for women. It's hard for me to believe you are trying to give that any sort of grief.
p.s. Get laid.
bwahahahaha. I had a comment, but I lost it after the laughfest that followed "get laid." can't. stop. laughing.
*wipes a tear from my eye*
You hairy legged man and sex hating prude!
bwahahahhahahhahahahhahaha
Well, golly. More rollerhate on the blogs. You know, I read what was up on I Blame Patriarchy and one thing that really chaps my ass is how the notion of roller derby being an actual sport isn't considered legitimate unless men are doing it, too. Now that's some kinda Patriarchy if I ever heard it.
I play on a league. I am a card carrying feminist. The T&A factor might get them in the door but it isn't what keeps them there. We work hard and the competition is real.
Unlike earlier incarnations of the game where the teams were all owned by one family (teams which also have traditionaly, since Leo Seltzer's invention of the game in the 1930s, been co-ed) , this one is in fact owned and operated by US, the skaters.
We formed the league, we figured out the training, we raised the funds, we filed the paperwork, we take the tickets.
Also, it is worth noting that through this endeavor many of us have developed serious business savy and marketable skills that we either didn't have before or didn't have as honed.
On a very personal note, it is also worth noting that I was in the middle of leaving an abusive marriage when I came to derby, and the experience has given me more strength and faith in my built-by-me community than I knew I was capable of having. It is also, incidentally, the ONLY arena where I feel safe enough to wear any makeup at all and femme it up a bit.
Any critique of my baby, the Charm City Roller Girls, as somehow anti-feminist is utterly laughable.
Now go fight that good fight for parity for working moms like the above poster suggested. That battle I could actually use some help with.
Lady Quebeaum
#34
Charm City Roller Girls
i applaud you for keeping up this blog, especially if all of your comments are like those above. admittedly, i didn't really read all of them because anyone whose reaction to an opinion to which they differ is "get laid" doesn't deserve my effort.
but, to Lady Quebeaum:
i know you work hard. i KNOW you do. i've been nurse to many a rookie derby injury. i watched my love turn from marshmallow to powerhouse in less than 3 months. and i know that, theoretically, derby is an amazing and life altering experience for many people. but what happens when the alteration is destructive? how often is it destructive?
here's the scoop:
i have spent the evening trying to research the psychology of roller derby. mainly, why women do it and how it affects their out-of-derby relationships. unfortunately, there are few articles with any credibility on the subject, and the straight up scholarly ones have to be paid for. so i searched regular google, and found you whilst sifting through the masses of garbage the internet has to offer.
here's my story:
last week, my girlfriend of just over a year (relationship infancy, i know) left me after we'd been butting heads about roller derby since she joined the league in the summer. the issues were not that i didn't want her skating around and showing off her tits, it was that the derby persona that she'd adopted as part of the derby show actually started becoming who she was at home. some of the things i loved about her was her intolerance to bullshit and her strong will to do things her own way. but since she started derby, i noticed changes: she became obsessed with derby, staying up all night to view every derby page on the internet; she started shopping like crazy, her new clothes getting tighter and tighter; she stopped sewing, her previous favorite passtime to free up time to go out with her new friends; mostly though, she became arrogant and standoffish to the point where she started losing friends. and me.
she often argued that her derby persona was like being an actor in a play. but that's not what i witnessed of either her or one of our best friends, who also recently split with her girlfriend of ver 3 years for many of the same reasons. this is, of course, the short story.
what is it about derby that turned two of my loved ones into assholes so arrogant that they don't care who they're driving away? what is it that makes someone choose a false persona over a real and loving relationship? binge-drinking and high school-like sexual tension over stability and respect? in a couple of years, when they realize that they don't want to be fake people anymore, what kind of support will they have? will derby toss them aside like they did to their girlfriends?
i'm looking for anything CONSTRUCTIVE anyone's got on the subject.
As a skater myself and feminist, I originally wasn't into doing roller derby because I thought the short skirts and punk rock attitude were big turn-offs. I'm more of a 'conservative' derby girl--no tattoos, my natural hair color (or close to it) and no crazy piercings. I'm an elementary school music teacher. I have an image to uphold off the rink that is more important than my image on the rink.
To respond to your comments, I don't really think cheerleading and derby, or mud wrestling and derby should be compared at all. I can honestly say that the majority of girls on the league I play for wear skirts both in practice, where there are no men, and in play because it's quite simply the most comfortable option. You're skating around in a circle nonstop, your knee pads are gigantic and you need to wear clothing that will be appropriate to the sport you're playing as well as comfortable. Derby's punk rock, DIY attitude lends itself to more liberal interpretations of clothing. Additionally, your ass gets sweaty in pants. You don't feel like you have the freedom of movement that you do in a skirt. It also keeps you cooler than wearing pants and keeping your appendages cool in a hot, hot rink can be a great advantage. Mud wrestling, in my opinion, is a bad example to compare to derby. Mud wrestling is not a sport. It is an activity meant for male attention. Of course there will be an attention-grabbing physical appeal to roller derby--girls of all shapes and sizes can be both athletic and sexy at the same time. I find that to be pretty awesome.
A derby persona is just that--a DERBY persona. "Brrri" said that she lost two people to derby and that their attitudes changed dramatically. That shows me that the people she was friends with don't know how to keep a personality "on the rink" and be themselves when they come home. A good derby skater can put herself into a role that she plays for a 60-minute game. Whether it's bad-ass, troublemaker, good girl, the quiet one--whatever--they can build a personality and gain fans and a reputation for her skating ability based on that. She can also go home and be her true self. I leave the rink, take my skates off, go to bed in the evening and wake up as Miss S...", the music teacher that all my students love.
The biggest point I have to make is the experience I've had on the rink. I have had numerous people come up to me after a game, both male and female, and tell me that I kicked ass. They tell me that I hit hard, that I skate fast, that I have a bad attitude on the rink (I'm known for being a troublemaker) and that they'll come out to see me skate again. They don't say my ass looks hot, they don't whistle at me when I skate--they cheer and yell and scream their heads off. They may watch to see me knock a girl over, but they KEEP watching because we have strategy, rilvalry and a true sport. And saying an audience won't watch men in skimpy outfits knocking each other over?? Ever hear of pro wrestling?
Roller derby is an interesting sport, for sure. It's comprised of a wonderful mix of individuals that may not have been friends before derby, but have an unbreakable bond once the skates are laced up. To say that we aren't feminists or aren't 'for the cause' completely negates the fact that this is why we started the leagues altogether.
*leigh*
Philly Rollergirls
www.phillyrollergirls.com
Well, I am sorry that you lost two people. It sounds painful. Having no window into your personal situation makes it unfair to hypothesize.
Honestly? In my personal experience, sometimes empowerment means leaving a relationship. Does it mean turing into an asshole? No. Does it mean ceasing all other endeaors? Again, no. Not sure how much derby had to do with it.
For me it's an appropriate arena for my aggression. It's healthy. Better there than lots of other places I could put it. Frankly, I have so much going on outside of derby that there isn't room for much spillover. I suspect I'm not alone in this.
...That was from me, Quebeaum.
Why is it that when people talk about "women enjoying their sexuality" they are usually talking about women enjoying giving *others* an enjoyable sight of their bodies? Is having people look at you and like what they see really what heterosexual women's sexuality is about? Heterosexual men's sexuality generally isn't about being looked at or giving visual pleasure to others.
Sure, taking pleasure in the pleasure of others is wonderful, but I rather doubt that's quite what they are talking about here--no, they are talking about women feeling that they have sexual value (the main type of social value women are allowed to have) because they are sexually desirable to others. And the happiness that comes from feeling valued. The fun and pleasure that comes from having that tiny bit of power.
A more authentic female sexuality would not be all about being looked at!
Our Roller Derby League is Structured as a non-profit organization run by and for the skaters. We take pride in our athleticism, professionalism, and event production standards. In our first season, we have raised thousands of dollars for causes as varied as ovarian cancer to rock and roll camps for girls.
We let each skater determine her own level of “sexuality” when deciding how to dress for the bouts. Sure, each team has a uniform, but skaters are allowed to customize what they wear to fit their own personality. I was actually looking for football style roller derby pants when I stumbled across your blog. I have seen them on a number of all star roller derby girls from Texas, and would like to figure out where to buy them.
We also have a strict policy against individual skaters taking public stances on heated topics so I’ll have to remain anonymous. But I would say that you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
As a woman who has worked for a long time in male-dominated gritty industrial occupations, and who has been frustrated in other attempts to meet interesting like-minded women, roller derby has truly been a godsend.
I now know pharmacists, architects, engineers, corporate business women, moms, car repair people, etc. etc., whom I would never ordinarily have the chance to meet. Now we hang out together, play sports, and drink beer. And yes! Sometimes we even talk about shoes and clothes and relationships! ha !
Roller Derby Rules! Now quit fussing about my skirt, and go put on your skates.
I have been a feminist pretty much since infancy - my first memory of being excluded from team sports includes refusing to be a cheerleader in the 2nd grade when the boys wouldn't let me play football.
But I'll be honest with you - I like that Roller Derby is one of the few places where I can wear a miniskirt & not feel like I'm going to be judged or get my butt grabbed.
I am very self-conscious & insecure about my body & I like being able to wear more form-fitting clothes without being ashamed of how I look! I have tattoos, but not visible ones (they're all on my back)& I have long, naturally colored hair.
Derby is actually a career risk for me because if I get hurt, I could get laid off (I work in the construction trades), but I can't give it up because it's really a great release of aggression for me & actually markedly decreases my asshole factor. I am much less of an asshole than I was before derby, because I was so stressed out all the time! Derby has made me more confident, hopefully not more arrogant.
I agree that some of the costumes in derby could be seen as exploitative, & there's definitely some one-upmanship going on in terms of "how short can my skirt get" but there are also girls on our league who wear long skirts or even pants! I honestly don't mind the T & A aspect of derby. We're not strippers, we're athletes. & I think that the camp value associated with derby definitely was a huge part of the draw in joining the sport. & I've played team & individual sports basically my whole life, but never really liked the standard 'jock' persona.
As if those female athletes aren't subjugated to the patriarchy! Often times, more so! How many WNBA teams are women-owned & operated? Tennis banks on the exploitation of the sexuality of women in a much more gross way to me than roller derby.
As if the "straight-laced" male athlete doesn't symbolize patriarchy! More conservative costumes wouldn't make Roller Derby less exploitative, it would just make it less fun. I love the showmanship involved in Derby, & I love the sport. & I don't think that in any way compromises my status as a feminist.
"You could work as a prostitute and genuinely enjoy the work and your particular set of johns and you will still be propping up the patriarchy because you are acting out the notion that a woman's body is a commodity to be bought and sold"
Uh, aren't women's bodies bought and sold in regular non-sex oriented wage labor? Like picking fruit in the fields, scrubbing floors, etc? All employers use and exploit women's bodies for profit; it isn't unique to the sex industry.
Has anyone paid attention to the huge growth of roller derby over the past couple years? There are leagues popping up country-wide. You are unfairly criticizing women nation-wide because you are generalizing Roller Derby based on what you are seeing on myspace, you tube, or in very large towns. Come to Kansas. We skate in t-shirts, shorts, and socks. We work our asses off, we don't show our asses off. We practice like an athletic sports team, we dress like an athletic sports team, and we manage our affairs that way, too. There are leagues out there who are making efforts to earn credit for the sport where credit is due. It's not all fake and fluff.
I absolutely support any woman who puts on a pair of skates and tries this out, no matter what you choose to cover yourself in! It's not your everyday roller skating you did as a pre-teen; roller derby is hard work. Roller Derby has crashes, spills, and sometimes fights. But that's not what we are out there for. There is strategy to the S-P-O-R-T. So, out of respect for us athletes you are trashing because some women choose to play up their 'fancy' in a Bout and dress a bit sexier than others, please do some more research and find some legitimate criticisms of roller derby. I surmise once you've done that, you might not have so much to gripe about.
Tracy
Top-City Rollergirls
Topeka, KS
If Roller Derby is really about how awesome the girls are at their sport, then it should REALLY be about that. It should really be about how empowering it is to see women being competitive and athletic and downright bad ass regardless of what they're wearing.
That pretty much summarizes the point you're making. So why don't YOU stop worrying about what we're wearing and let us just be our bad ass selves?
-from a rollergirl
ummm, ever watch volley ball on espn? swimmers wear swim suits. what's the big deal, wrestlers wear little tiny shorts. we can show as much skin as we want, we have to impress people cause we are roller girls (and rollerderby is closest related to wrestling)! i couldn't emagine wearing sweatpants in front of a crowd:( it gets hot skating, just tell me, when you go to the rink to skate and you pass by a heat vent, and want to pass out.
striver, in a new team
Lesbians commodify female sexuality, too. Just because there are some women in the audience doesn't make Roller Derby any less degrading than a strip club. And if the whole thing is women owned and operated, well then, the pimp is a madam. It happens.
It's so frustrating to see people trying to piss in my ear and tell me it's raining (the comments)
You may think it's ok to use T&A to get yourself in the door, but where does that leave everyone else? The same old system is reinforced, and other women who DON'T choose it have to live in it.
I'd argue with every comment that completely insults my intelligence (ie. bodies are sold in every type of labour!) but I'll refrain from doing so.
This entry was awesome and I think you hit the nail on the head.
There's no problem with roller derby, but I take issue with it when they turn a sport that could challenge a great deal of societal norms and make it into a T&Afest. Makes you take the whole thing a lot less seriously..
I play for a league about a year old in the South. We have a team tank top, and anything the girls want to wear other than that is their choice, provided their ass is mostly covered when they take a spill. We have teachers, nurses, nursing students, artists, hairstylists, all walks of life, on our team. We donate a portion of all profits to charity.
Some of us are more provocative than others. I, for one, weigh 210 pounds, lots of it muscle, but chunk too, and frankly appreciate the fact that I get to wear something cute when I knock the hell out of somebody. Makes me feel a little less butchy since I'm close to six feet tall on skates.
Roller Derby is not about feminism. We stand for and by ourselves. It's a grassroots movement for women, by women, and I'm sorry about the person who left the comment about their girlfriend turning into an asshole, but you will be who you are, on and off the rink.
Derby changes lives for the better. It's helped me get through a divorce. We had a bout Saturday night, and my 75 year old Southern Baptist grandmother came with my mother, my uppity aunt (God Bless Her) and my Pentecostal no tv watching stepdad. They loved it, and none of them said a word about my fishnets. Why? They know who and what I stand for. The rest of the world can kiss my ass.
Are we alternative women? Yes, most of us, some aren't. Have we lost a player or two because of family members having issues with derby? Yes. Boyfriends and girlfriends get jealous sometimes. There are inter-derby relationships (between refs and skaters) that thrive because they know what's going on. Our head ref is married to one of our jammers, and when we are at practice they are all business.
Basically, I say all this to illustrate that, while I respect your right to your opinion, you don't actually even play Derby. It's a complicated, strenuous sport. The fact that you compared it to mud wrestling shows how little awareness you actually have of it. Trust me, we don't have to wear t-shirts and athletic shorts to be taken seriously. When the whistle blows, and girls start hitting the ground, people know we mean business. The girl who's jaw I supposedly dislocated isn't hurting any less because I was wearing a skirt when I did it. And, yes, it was an accident. It's a rough game.
Siren Arrra
Mobile Roller Derby
Oh Lord this is new for me. I actually study Feminist theory for a living and have begun a project concerning Derby, though I am not quit sure which aspect I am going to tackle.
I am emotional, I mean Detroit is going to Nationals next week and I have worked myself to the point of near delirium; so gigs up, I play derby too.
With that being said I am both horrified by some of the comments on this blog and incredibly inspired, to the point of blurry eyes while I write this.
I will only talk about my inspiration and weave a few major attributes that I see in derby, I feel that tearing each other apart and making snap comments are very counter productive to elevating our position in society.
My derby hero plays for Philly, and thats what inspired my first point.
Us Women have some heroes in life, but we don't have the same volume of selection as our male counter parts are. I love Dr. Bartky like I'm sure many feminist do, but I after much consideration and academic dispute I must say that I admire Roxy Rocket equally, and feel that what I have learned from watching her is at least as valuable to my life as the writings of Dr. Bartky.
From watching Roxy I learned about competitiveness, indirectly granted. I learned that the judgments of those, who see me not as a lady as I am smashing others to the floor via vicious chest blows (and yes I accidentally dislocated someone's jaw as well), does not affect my personal existence. I have learned to not care what you think, cause I have power in my life for the first time.
And this brings me to my first point of major feminism in action of roller derby.
When I felt that I had earned the right to tell Ms. Rocket that she is my hero I did, and guess what she knew who I was. She knew cause we are all in this together, blood sweat and fartleks. Where else in life do you get to know your heroes and talk to them, learn directly from them and feel an incredible sense of communion? This is a very powerful and moving force in my life. And it's not just one hero, I mean I skate with Racer McchasHer (among Cookie and Honey and...and.. so many amazing women in Detroit) and she is an amazing human being as well as the best jammer I have yet to lay my eyes on in person.
But she's my friend as well as my inspiration, we scream at each other to push harder and then lay in each others laps... for those of you with harsh words about derby, I challenge you to find a type of female communion of this magnitude in other areas of our society.
-Insert, 'well power from a short skirt is a power from an unduly narrowing of options, etc..'
Well to you I say, and as a matter of fact to all those who have commented on the way you dress or the way in which others chose to cloth their bodies, don't try and justify yourself.
Have you ever heard of the Political is the Personal? To try and claim their is but one type of Feminism, and that failure to dress the part of that feminism is failure to conform, is conjecture. And to try and appeal to a theory as authority is the first sin of philosophy.
And lastly, I myself have played against Charm City and I would have to agree that any critique of them as anti-feminist is laughable. But I guess you would only know that through the communion of our sisterhood.
I feel that true knowledge does not come through philosophical conflation of empty facts, it's the ground level, experience, that reveals our feminism on skates.
KillBox
#989
Detroit Derby Girls
Can't a girl just skate for the fun of it and for the exercise? Why make it so complicated?
Go here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/type2b/sets/72157602333101049/
This is the national roller derby championship, and these are the two best leagues in the nation, and this is the way all roller derby is developing. I challenge you to look at any of these pictures and identify ONE aspect that plays to any patriarchal stereotypes of women. And if you get into sports being a construct of the patriarchy or some such BS, I challenge you to actually get out and PLAY ONE for a year and then come back to me with your dogmatic, didactic opinions in place.
Look closely at this picture:
http://bulgaria.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/6/MujeresBasketball.jpg
These are zapatista women playing basketball in skirts. You wanna talk to them about their complicity with the patriarchy?
Sheesh.
Kentucky Dervish
Windy City Rollers
I have to apologize; I haven't read all of the comments above - a girl has to get back to work at some point - but I wanted to share a little of my experience here in St. Louis.
I've been a skater with the Arch Rival Roller Girls since we formed in late 2005.
In the early days, I think a big part of the draw was the short-skirt-punk look, but I think a lot of that has changed just in our first two years.
The uniforms have changed, our league's demographic has changed, and the fans' understanding of the strategy and rules of the sport has changed.
Yes, in the early days, the draw was certainly short skirts and sexy girls beating each other up. But when you practice 4 times a week for 3 hours at a time, and when you have people compiling statistics on your plays and tracking your averages, there's not a lot of time to try to look pretty out there. You have to wear what's comfortable. (On uniforms - my team, the Stunt Devils, wears modified volleyball uniforms (with skirts for ease of movement). The other teams in my league either have purchased athletic uniforms or wish they had.)
As we've developed greater intensity in our training and approach to the sport, our fans have followed suit.
Our league's demographic has changed as a result of attracting people from athletic, rather than punkrock, backgrounds. Yoga instructors, former professional cyclists, personal trainers, former national field hockey players, and others have come for the atmosphere and stayed for the workout. Those women have a strong influence on our league - they push the athletic side at practices, in publicity events, and in all of their 'derby' interactions. Maybe some leagues are different, but I can only assume that the many, many leagues who are faster and better than we are - and there are a ton - have to have come to the same conclusion along the way.
In addition, we are lucky enough to have very positive press coverage here in St. Louis. Articles on our league have focused on the development of the sport and the business (a feature article in St. Louis Small Business Monthly tracked our 'best practices' for other business owners to learn from), rather than on the short skirts. We get coverage of our bouts from local TV stations' sports anchors - sometimes broadcasting their weekend sports updates live from our bouts. Our fans come to games with detailed knowledge of players' statistical averages.
I had this debate about whether derby was feminist with my best friend a when I first joined the league. I can't remember which sides we took, but I can tell you that at the time, the women in the league were the same women I remembered from the personal-is-political-d.i.y. hardcore, riot grrl scene of the early 1990's.
Now, two years in, roller derby is at least as feminist as any other sport in which women had to fight for recognition as athletes.
I don't see why we need to be seen as making any statement other than 'we're strong, we're fast, we fight for our team to win.' To me, the very idea of a bunch of grown women training hard, working together on a team, working to help each other through a high-speed, high stakes human obstacle course, is enough of a statement to the fans and media about the power that results when we work together.
generalizations are ALWAYS flawed and there are always exceptions, so I will not belabor the point that the generalizations here have exceptions.
but i have a few things to say:
1. no one has any right to say anything about the fact that i wear a skirt to practice or a game. screw you.
2. to brii: why does derby itself have to have anything to do with the fact that someone you love got sort of obsessed with it? to mr that only says something about the person you are referring to. i would be $$$ that one one told these skaters that they had to do anything other that show up to practice to be on the league.
3. sports clothing can be worn by the wearer for a combination of looks and performance and i don't give two flying fricks why some skaters wear fishnets or hot pants or whatever. that's none of my business. should we say that women's gymnastics are unfeminist because you can see their butts?
~dr.SKabs
Charm City Rollergirls
PS to brrri - no skater i know is skating around to "show off her tits" and it only shows how your personal resentment at being dumped is seeping into your logic by utilizing such a hateful phrase in relation to a pastime your ex apparently enjoys.
First of all let me say that roller derby is awesome and is a great way to exercise and get out aggression, especially when it's fueled by ignorant people who criticize things they know nothing about.
Any woman out there who is going to be negatively affected by my actions in any situation is weak-willed and undeserving of my respect. Sorry to break it to you, but the girls in roller derby who wear short skirts and fishnets to play a sport choose to wear those things for themselves and only themselves, either because it's comfortable or because they like to look good when all eyes are on them, and we have no reason or desire to play up to any sexual expectations and misconceptions men and you crazy feminists may have of the sport. This is the first time I've ever seen anything against roller derby, and you are the reason stupid people think of the sport as a show designed for male fantasies. Maybe if you got off your ass and on some skates, then tried to play roller derby (as in hitting and getting hit HARD, and playing with some sense of strategy and understanding of the rules) with the badass bitches who respect the sport for what it is, you'd definitely get your punk ass kicked but you might have some respect for the game and the girls who play it. Simpleminded people like you are the reason women still have so far to go. And to think, it's women who are bringing each other down. I've never met anyone who didn't think the idea of roller derby was totally awesome, and I really think you've got a lot of personal issues to work out. Confident women don't give a shit what men or anyone else think about them, and are comfortable enough with themselves to look sexy for themselves because it makes them feel good. Sexy doesn't have to mean promiscuous, or whorish. It is a show of confidence for many girls, and through roller derby I have gained more than I ever thought I could. I know this is probably way at the bottom of a stupid web page that no one will ever see except people like me who search for roller derby strategy and are severely offended by the accusations of someone who is criticizing something she doesn't understand, but I saw this and just had to educate you a little. God this makes me so mad... I have to stop. My advice to you is to go to one real practice with a real roller derby team and see what we do to get where we are in the sport, and see if you still think it's that and not people like you holding women back in our society. Get a life and don't bash what other people do if you don't know what you're talking about.
Whew. Now that I look back on that, when I wrote that I was VERY angry and now that I've cooled off a little, I can see that was sorta mean. I don't mean to belittle your opinion or your right to give one but geez get the right info. Had to get that out. Felt good. Not sorry. Just worded a little strongly, is all.
I'm from a country where feminism is supposed to have come the furtherest, I love rollerderby, i love the sisterhood, the way I can wear whatever I want to, that any woman any size have a go at it. How your teammates hugs you and say they love you no matter what the lenght on your skirt is. I know I'm one of the girls with the shortest skirts, I love it. I wear tights with a skirt, it is very comfortble to me.
Go take a stab at any sport, but I can say that if men like what they see or women like what they see, they can come up and talk to me. Because ppl that judge after the way you look, are the once that are really taken by patriarchy.
I love my leuge, they have made me a stronger person, a person that don't go to the bars and get drunk to be able to talk to people, it made me belive in myself and that I am valuble as the person I am!
So many wonderful supportive comments from women who actually play roller derby - I had chills running up and down my body as I read the comments. I'm so proud to be part of roller derby. Even though I feel the original post was short-sighted, poorly researched, and far too simplistic philosophically - I'm glad she posted it, because it brought so many women together to leave such great comments.
Roller Derby has changed my life for the better. It enables me to be a powerful competitive player with an amazing league of diverse and intelligent women while retaining some of the individual expression that has been a guiding imperative in my life.
Fuck Penis Envy....
Envy MiYoni # XX
Derby City Roller Girls
I was approached today by a member of the local Roller Derby team and asked if I wanted to join. I was excited and flattered. I am going to check it out with the intent of joining. 4 months ago I was 305 pounds and very unfit. I had Gastric bypass surgery, I started lifting weights and exercising vigourously and have gotten more attractitve. I have lost about 90 pounds. I look forward to the exercise, the ego boost and friendship. I can't wait!
Look, I've seen a lot of women approach the subject of roller derby much like this blog, and I've got to say I'm very disappointed to think that so many "feminist" ladies out there are only seeing this sport for its shallow OSDA roots. The grass roots revival of roller derby has been a rocky one, but take the time to really look at the sport now and where it is going. I'm a skater with a nationally ranked team in the WFTDA, women's flat track derby association. Our skaters where athletic shorts, tanks, pads, and skates. Some girls where extra layers to prevent rink rash...and NO ONE out there is doing it for the show, fake fights, or up skirt shots to thrill the crowd.
The crowds are plenty thrilled by the sport...a sport that is ABOUT the athletic prowess of the femals who play it. Roller derby is centered in balance, agility, strategy, and core strength...the athletic traits which tend to favor women more so that men athletes. People enjoy that it is fast paced, competitive, and REAL. Nothing about it needs to be showy because the sport itself is interesting enough. So take a second, watch a real bout...learn the sport and respect the skaters for what they do.
"Are you going to tell them what they're doing is any less empowering than what Roller Derby women do? Ok so cheerleading is ok.
Well let's push it further: what about Mud Wrestling? You know, the game where a couple of women get semi-nude and roll in the mud duking it out at strip clubs to cheers and yells. I would argue that you can make similar types of arguments in favor of women's Mud Wrestling as you could for Cheerleading or Roller Derby."
(Mudwrestling totally disreguarded because it's an event rather than a league of people who mudwrestle all the time and train in the offseason... ridiculous comparasin) Show me one Cheerleading "league" who started their not for profit business on their own, is not part of a larger (usually male owned) corporation, who is it's own DIY, PARTICIPANT (not coach or school) OWNED and OPERATED, self-tax paying, self-promoting, charity fundraising entity who on top of all of those things gathers sponsors, does their own PR, manages to figure out their own liability and skater insurance, recruits for it self, puts together events (bouts, scrimmages, practices, fundraisers, promo), find entertainment for halftime, Trains on it's own without much help outside their participants, on top of the "training and danger" you aforementioned...
... and I will then agree with you wholeheartedly that this cheerleading league is as empowering to women as Roller Derby... but since every derby league across the country started and run their entire business on their own EVERY Derby League will agree it's pretty empowering to the women without any dispute (and yes... men's league's too!) and fortunately for us, one person's opinion about "our outfits" being not under feminist protocol, has nothing to do with that.
-NHRD
Who said we had to wear skirts?
There are plenty of outfits that don't require my ass to be shown. So that's not even a valid arguement. As far as "wearing skimpy skirts and making others fall down", that's got to be the stupidest goddamn shit I've heard yet.
But of course, who cares. This is the internet, someone may or may not agree with me, and chances are none of us will ever meet in person. So I'm done talking about this lame shit.
Back to politics.
-NHRD
WELL CAN I JUST SAY SOMEONE THAT HAS SHIT TO SAY ABOUT DERBY NEEDS TO JUMP ON A PAIR OF SKATES AND SHOE DEBRY MEN AND WOMEN WHAT THEY HAVE>>> IF YOU CAN"T OR REFUSE TO THEN MAY I SUGGEST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND KEEP YOUR COMMENTS TO YOUR SELF>>>>
OOPS MY BAD I GOT ALL WORKED UP I TYPED TO QUIK>>>I MEANT *SHOW AND DERBY....LOL
Life's too short to analyze things to the core..jst let b what will b..if it makes u happy then go with it. Tking the time to rant will leave no impression..who cares..
i derby. dont knock it till u try it. chicka u apparently dont have anything else to do with ur self, put on some skates, i am sure there r alot of derby girls out there uv already pissed off thanks to u they will have a great bout or practice! oh yeah....cheerleading is 1 of the most dangerous sport out there, no protective gear at least we wear protection! i would never let my daughter be a cheerleader, i would rather her derby any day. dont ever compare pole dancers or mud wrestling to derby...derby is a sport! so keep ur feminist bullshit to ur self...love 2 see u on the track );)
oh yeah womens derby has brought alot of shy women and women who maybe never played a sport in school because they were too big or not pretty enough or whatever..i am saying this in a great way because i have a little extra poundage and i have soo many friends and my ass can knock yours into the fans.
I think roller derby is the only use in the world for fishnets. They aren't as hot as tights, but still allow less friction (and friction-burn!) when executing a baseball slide across concrete.
Ditto on the extra poundage too. I mean, it was really either derby or yoga, everywhere else is Judgemental with a capital "J". You ever try going to a gym weighing 200+ lb? Not only does everything flop around when running (no matter how many bras I wear), people stare as well. Not fun. Plus, the team aspect of derby keeps me engaged, something yoga and other "non-floppy" activities can't really do.
Dear Vicky,
Consider to join us for A Wonderous Woman Retreat
on August 13,14,and 15
The Wonderous Woman retreat program leads and encourages every woman to connect to all facets of her purpose and value. Our approach is to create experiential retreats in beautiful venues where you can connect to your mind, body and spirit.
It's easy to take care of everyone else in our lives,
but we tend to forget about ourselves.
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